0:00:00 - Emilee
Okay, Mikiah, the video that broke the internet.
0:00:05 - Mikiah
I was so overwhelmed by the love and support from the Free Birth Society followers. I was like so nervous to let the video be out there. I wasn't sure how people would take it. And then, oh my word, four days even still I'm getting messages. It was amazing.
0:00:27 - Emilee
Well, that video went really far. A lot of big pages stole it and didn't credit. A lot of big pages took it and ran with it. So that's a whole other piece, right, because there's whatever it did on the FBS page, but now it's in the landscape of what's possible, which ultimately, is why we share it, right.
0:00:56 - Mikiah
Which I was totally comfortable it being on your page. I knew a lot of your followers understand what that looks like and was pretty supportive. On the other pages, some people took it without permission or and some people were, like I don't know, really confused. They'd never seen that before. What is this magic?
0:01:18 - Emilee
I can't make sense of it. Why is she touching her baby?
0:01:22 - Mikiah
I even saw people saying like oh, she said that she's a doctor and oh, the midwet was on the way.
0:01:31 - Emilee
I was like absolutely not.
0:01:32 - Mikiah
Very far from a doctor.
0:01:34 - Emilee
That must be really funny for you to well, and weird to watch your own. Yeah, misinterpretation.
0:01:42 - Mikiah
I know I had to turn Instagram notifications off and just not look at anymore. It was like it was just too much for me.
0:01:51 - Emilee
Yeah, I've noticed some really really big birth ish pages have been doing this thing where they have me blocked. But they'll troll from another account. Obviously they'll troll my page and they'll repost my videos. I mean not, you know they're not my videos, but you know what I mean the videos I first post of these beautiful freebirths, and so then it goes into these like different demographics and different populations of women who aren't yeah, maybe, totally in the grasping and understanding of what we're doing.
0:02:29 - Mikiah
Yeah, but you know, I guess how I was looking at it is okay. It might be this person's first time, because I saw like some nurses and doctors that were commenting Maybe it's their first time seeing a birth like that and maybe next time it'll be like oh, I saw that before and then the next time, and the next time it'll eventually be normal. I don't know, but totally like it's fine if that's the first one you've seen.
0:02:54 - Emilee
We all have a first, like that, really, that really you know, like marks where we're at right, that thousands of people are seeing that video and they've never seen anything, even in the realms, of what is just normal birth. Like it's a beautiful video, of course, but like all normal births are beautiful videos, right, because it's just a beautiful animal birthing her young right, exactly.
0:03:25 - Mikiah
Yep.
0:03:25 - Emilee
It's a trip, okay. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that video. I do think I think there is. There is a lot in, you know, those couple minutes that are just so perfect and so sweet, and the commentary of the rest of your family. And, yeah, it's. You know, it's so important that the public gets to be exposed to the other side of the coin, right? Because we all grow up with just like the gnarliest, most false truths about this, as you know.
0:04:00 - Mikiah
Yeah, and I always was. I always loved birth and I would always ask people their birth story.
I was born at home, and so that was like my favorite thing to share, because it was kind of like a strange thing back then to be like born at home and so I would always share that, oh, I was born at home. And then of course, people would share their like traumatic birth story with me and I would be like 11 years old always. Yeah, I mean like just for as long as I can remember it would be like horrible birth stories told back to me.
0:04:34 - Emilee
But so, yeah, give me a bit more of your like kind of arc into the first birth. So you're born at home. So there's this normalcy there, but also culture is doing everything you can to fear, monger you. So then, by the time you're pregnant, where are you at with birth, with your first kid?
0:04:51 - Mikiah
So my husband and I were planning on getting pregnant in our 30s, and then I ended up getting pregnant when I was 20 years old 20, 20. Oh snap. So not quite the plan, but immediately, you know, excited and totally welcome. And so I always knew I wanted to birth at home. That was just a given. There was no discussion about it. But unfortunately, fortunately, unfortunately my husband has really good insurance and so paying for five $6,000 for a home birth midwife was not logical. I guess it wasn't something that we were willing to do when our insurance would cover it. And you're 20. I sorry, and you're 20. Yeah, and I'm 20.
And we're literally like oh, that's $6,000 we could like use for the baby and stuff, totally. So I end up compromising. I really I want a home birth but and I know at this point, I've heard of freebirth, but that wasn't something I considered for myself. I don't know why, because I definitely would have if I did. You had already heard of it, I'm pretty sure I have and how old are you now 23. Okay.
0:06:08 - Emilee
So this was only three years ago.
0:06:10 - Mikiah
Okay, yeah, so I know that I'm like.
When I found out I was pregnant, I was watching birth videos and even the home birth videos the midwife stepping in and like the blue gloves and all this stuff. I didn't like it and so I would watch the freebirth ones more, but I don't know why I didn't associate like me doing that. But I definitely resonated most with the hands off undisturbed birth. But I don't know hands off undisturbed birth. But I ended up compromising and found a birth center that was run by midwives and I. We decided to go there for the first birth. They had a tub that I could birth in and that was like what I wanted.
That was my priority. That's what I put all my energy into was I wanted a water birth and when I would tell people that, of course they would be like, oh, I tried for that, and then, you know, ended up doing this and that. So I really like manifested water birth and that was kind of all that I focused on. I didn't really focus on anything else. So my pregnancy went really well. I loved being pregnant. I mean, I guess when you're pregnant at 20 years old is pretty easy Not for everybody, but yeah, I love it Doesn't hurt.
0:07:33 - Emilee
It doesn't act against you.
0:07:37 - Mikiah
Yeah, but one of the midwives at the birth center I really liked. I felt like she went against what some of the other midwives were recommending for me and I related with her the most, so I was really hoping that she would be the one that would attend my birth. So jump forward to 39 weeks there. I don't know how many midwives were in the group, but it's kind of like, you know, one is doing the clinic side and then there's another one on call doing, you know, attending birth. So I meet this new midwife that I hadn't met before and she asked me if I want a, if I wanted my cervix check, and I said no, thank you. And she said, okay, you can refuse this week, but at 40 weeks we do them. And I was like, oh, I mean, so that's telling me I cannot refuse, I cannot decline, I can decline at 39 weeks, but no longer starting next week.
I'm like okay, and I was pretty open with them that transferring to the hospital was like my biggest nightmare. I absolutely did not want to do that and I felt like every appointment they were like, oh, you risk out at 42 weeks, we're going to have to make you transfer at 42 weeks, kind of like they were using that against me to pressure me into I don't know, maybe leading up to different inductions, I don't know. So and I was really open about I wanted my husband to catch our baby, I wanted his hands to be the first one on our baby and then bring him up to me, and in my mind that means nobody else's hands are on him, just my husband. So I come back at 40 weeks and she does the survey, the what's it called, the exam, whatever it is, and I'm two centimeters dilated and 80% of faced, and so I'm like, what does that mean? And she's like, well, it could mean you go into labor tonight or you could be pregnant for a couple more weeks.
0:09:48 - Emilee
It means nothing. I just had to dominate you, so you knew who was in control Exactly.
0:09:53 - Mikiah
I'm like, okay, so that was pointless. Did you think I was going to come in and like magically be 10 centimeters? I don't know. So I'm like, well, I'm feeling pretty pressured to have this baby before 42 weeks. They're trying to schedule me for an appointment where they like check in SC or something like that. And so I'm like what are some things I could do to try to help myself go into labor? And she's like, well, I could do a membrane sweep. And so I said what's a membrane sweep? And she said it's where we go in and we sweep your membranes which, by the way, for anyone listening, that is not informed consent. Informed consent is explaining. If she would have told me I'm going to stick my hands so far inside you, spread your cervix and scrape the mucus that's in between your baby and you, I would have said absolutely not.
0:10:49 - Emilee
Also, informed consent implies not just the right to say no, but the support to say no. Right, the support to say no which, just like with the vaginal exam, it's okay, no for now, but yes later. Right, it's all bullshit.
0:11:08 - Mikiah
Yeah, and it wasn't even the way she worded it of you can refuse now, but starting at 40 weeks we do it. That's telling me, don't even try to refuse, or I don't know, or you're done here. You know, and I just wanted a water birth, so bad. So anyway, I'm like, okay, we can try that. I was not expecting the pain that it caused. I had to cancel all my appointments the rest of the day. It was the worst pain I've ever experienced in my life and she told me, if it doesn't hurt, then it didn't work.
0:11:44 - Emilee
That is some rapey ass shit to say to you. Wow, yeah.
0:11:50 - Mikiah
Wow. And I was like okay, well, that hurt a lot, oh yeah. So she also recommended that I drink castor oil on an empty stomach the next day. So I went home, I ended up actually losing my mucus plug that night and I didn't think anything of it, I was just like, oh, there's that so long.
So then the morning, the next morning, I drank castor oil on an empty stomach. First thing in the morning it tasted like licking a railroad. It was horrible. And then I had, I like didn't want anything else to eat or drink all day. So I was so dehydrated I hadn't eaten anything since the night before and I just wasn't feeling good.
So then I took a bite out of a pastry around like one o'clock and felt instant stomach ache. And my husband had just left for work he was working second shift at that time so I just went in the bathroom and was in the bathroom for hours just like diarrhea, stomach ache, constant pain. And I called the midwife and told her I'm in so much pain. She was like oh, it's probably just from the drink, just count your contractions. And then let me know. And I was like there are no contractions, this is constant, 100% pain. She's like okay, well, when you have contractions then let me know. And then like okay.
So I ended up not even being able to. I can't respond to people on my phone, I can't do anything. So I paged my husband at work and asked him to come home. I can't even take care of myself at this point. So an hour later he gets home. I guess he thought it wasn't like urgent. So he like finished out the hour at work and by the time he got home I was in the bathtub and the first thing I said to him was I'm just gonna have a baby in here. And he was like well, let's just call and see what they say. So he called them. She told him the same thing. So my husband downloads an app, is trying to count contractions that I'm not even feeling and at one point I feel what might feel like one and I say okay, I think I'm having one. And the app had like an ad. It was an interactive ad, so you had to play a little game before. So he's like playing this game.
0:14:30 - Emilee
That's so sick, that's so sick.
0:14:33 - Mikiah
By the time the ad is over, he's like okay, and then I'm like I think it's over, Just forget it.
0:14:38 - Emilee
That's a terrible memory. I know it was horrible, it's like the technocratic system right there, like that is so creepy.
0:14:48 - Mikiah
So he's like I think we should just have them check the baby, you know, and if everything's fine we can just come back. And so I agreed to that and have a miserable car ride there. I'm wearing like his basketball shorts and like a sports bra thing. We didn't pack any bags. So my husband like threw stuff in the car and we get to the birth center and they're having a going away party for like one of their employees, that retired or something.
And so I walk in and everybody is like cheering me on as I'm like hunched over walking through, which maybe for some people they would like that, but for me it was like not the time. So they put me in this exam room and I hear one of the nurses say to another nurse she's like putting her food away and then she's gonna be in. So then I'm like thinking, oh great, I'm messing up her supper, like she's not able to eat. My brain is off of me and like thinking about them. So she comes in like less than five minutes later and the nurse says she's had three contractions so far and I remember being like, oh, I had no idea I was even having that, but I mean, it was just painful all the way through. Somehow my pants are off. I don't remember taking them off. I don't know who took them off and she waits for me.
I know, I genuinely don't know how they came off. So she waits for me to have like a contraction and I'm like arching my back with them, I guess. And then she sticks her hand inside me and checks and I'm like yelling, arching my back. No heads up, no permission given.
0:16:38 - Emilee
Oh, my God.
0:16:40 - Mikiah
And then she says, okay, what room did you want? And my husband was like, wait, we're staying. And she was like, yeah, she's eight centimeters. And so we were like, oh, okay.
And then I walk across the hall naked, not even put my pants back on, just walk across the hall into this room where the tub is at, and I go straight to the toilet because I'm still having diarrhea from the castor oil and I haven't had anything to eat or drink all day.
So at this point it's like four or five PM and I'm on the toilet just going to the bathroom and the nurse and her like rushing the door and they're like are you giving birth on the toilet right now? And I was like, no, please get out, let me go to the bathroom. No, I'm not giving birth right now. So they fill up the tub and I get in the tub and then everything stops, the pain stops and I'm frustrated. I'm so frustrated because I'm thinking it's about to be done and it stops and I know now why it kind of stopped. But I asked them like why did my labor stop? And the midwife says she needs nipple stimulation and my husband reaches over and starts rubbing my nipples through my shirt or through my bra thing and I'm not really like hearing them.
So I like ask him to please stop. I don't want to be touched like that in front of these strangers. And so he stops, and then I just start. I'm feeling uncomfortable, I'm feeling frustrated, I want this over with. So I start pushing without any contractions, with nothing, and eventually, and they're like telling me to stop, they're putting like rags on my head trying to get me to calm down, eventually I start having, you know, the contractions start back up and my body is pushing, but I'm still pushing in between, my body pushing because I'm just trying to get this over with.
And the whole time her hands are on me the whole time and his head is coming out, going back in, and she's sticking her finger in, going around his head. And my water never broke, it was still intact. And so I thought, oh, that'd be kind of cool if he was born like in a sack or whatever. So, as his head is coming out, oh, and I had invited my friend to take some pictures and video. So she's sitting across from me taking pictures and she didn't realize it, but the live setting was on and so I was able to go back and you can like hold down on the picture and it'll play like a little clip of the audio and the video. So that's how I'm able to process all of this later on. I would not have known that any of this was happening if it wasn't for her taking all these pictures. So his head is crowning and she's sticking her finger in and at one point I like scream and then she says, oops, that was my finger. And then you see a little bit of blood come out and I had a small hair on my labia that I'm pretty sure was from that moment. Because his head is coming out, she's stretching me and she's sticking her finger in and going around like this and eventually his water breaks. I don't know if she did it or if it broke on its own, but it breaks. I don't feel it or anything like that. I must have just been like numb from I don't know the whole situation.
So his head comes out and she's still reaching her fingers in and can feel that the cord is around his neck and so as I'm pushing, she's like pulling the cord over his head, just still like has her hands inside me when I'm like stretched to the most that I possibly could be. And as all of this is happening, I'm saying Colin is my husband. I'm saying Colin, catch him. Colin catch him because I can feel that he's about to come out and she has not taken her hands off of me since his head started crowning. And I'm still saying that, as his shoulders are coming out, colin, catch him. And so then my husband reaches down. She still has his hands on him and they both lift him up and put him on me and I'm in this like birth high. I can't believe I did it. I'm so happy, I'm amazed.
And then, out of nowhere, boom, an ambi bag gets put on his face and they start puffing air into his face. And I snap out of this birth high that I'm in and I'm thinking is my baby okay? Is he not breathing? And then he starts crying and everybody's cheering Gross as this is happening. And, by the way, in the video I don't realize it, but there's like five sets of hands on my son. Immediately it's my hands, my husband, and then, like two nurses in the midwife, they're rubbing his feet, someone has a rag and is rubbing his face, rubbing his back, and then somebody puts an ambi bag on him like seconds.
I have like two seconds of a birth high and in that moment I snapped out and I don't know if I really went back in to that birth high. I just remember thinking like is my baby gonna make it? And no mother should ever feel like that when it is completely unnecessary, so anyway, so that happens. He starts crying, everybody's cheering and then all of a sudden the pool is filled with blood and I look down and the midwife has my placenta in her hands and she says to me it was ready to come out.
So, as I'm having my seconds of like, and then they put the bag on him, she had reached her hand inside me and scraped my placenta out. I didn't feel any cramping, I didn't feel anything. I just saw the tub filled with blood and I was like, oh, that was like really fast. And then I start getting like really lightheaded. So then they pass our son over to my husband and get me out of the tub and I was like really lightheaded. I remember thinking like I can't believe I'm walking right now. And then I get into a bed and they do all their things and it was like they had a checklist Before I could go home. They wanted me to shower, they wanted me to pee, they wanted to watch me breastfeed him and all of this stuff, and so I was pushed.
0:23:56 - Emilee
They do have a checklist. They have a literal checklist.
0:23:59 - Mikiah
I just remember being pushed to take a shower right away so I washed off all of my amazing postpartum smell. I didn't even think to nurse my son until an hour later. A nurse said maybe you should try to feed him. And I'm like why didn't I have that instinct to feed my baby sooner? And I think it was because my power was taken away. I didn't have my own instincts at that point. Everything was being done for me and I was just kind of sitting there like zoned out. So we do go home that night around like 10 or 11. And then they do like a 24 hour visit, 72 hour visit, one week visit. Like there's so many visits I didn't feel like I could actually be his mom until I was released from their care. Basically.
0:24:58 - Emilee
That's interesting.
0:25:00 - Mikiah
So yeah, very like micromanaging him I guess, Like not letting me just be a mother and know, like I would know if my baby's running a fever, and that kind of stuff.
0:25:13 - Emilee
Well, first of all I want to say I'm really it's kind of a weird thing to say, but I'm really impressed at your ability to narrate and articulate, step by step, the sabotage of your birth.
0:25:41 - Mikiah
I never felt right about the ambi bag thing, about the I don't know if they were like resuscitating him or what. I never felt good about that. I knew it was unnecessary and that was just always like I wish they didn't do that. That really ruined that for me. But I wasn't able to actually process everything until I became pregnant again. I went back to watch or look at all of the birth pictures that my friend had taken and I was able to notice every single thing like, oh, that all makes sense now that this was interrupted. This was interrupted.
0:26:18 - Emilee
Well, I mean, you didn't stand a chance, like from the, from the pre, from the membrane sweep. You know, I want I want the women listening to really really hear me that what you just described is just medical midwifery. There is nothing unique in the way in which you were treated. What happened, the membrane sweeps to the castor oil, to the, I mean, to the whole thing. The whole thing is just that's what it is. So for the first time I was at the center of birth. That's medical midwifery, you know, pretty much step by step. I was going to say that I have attended quite a few like neonatal resuscitation, you know, classes and trainings when I was a medical midwives assistant and I've been in multiple trainings where they say you know, for the next hundred babies, just bag them, just bag all of them for the practice. It's disgusting and so it. It is actually extremely likely that it had nothing to do with anything your baby was presenting, but that someone was practicing.
0:27:26 - Mikiah
Well, and that makes a lot of sense, because one of the nurses was training that day and they told me I'm training her. I never even put that together until you just said that. Yeah, and I even asked them what was the point of the bag and they were like he just needed a little help breathing.
Did he, yeah, did he. So I never felt good about that. But the other stuff, like the placenta me not even being able to birth the placenta, any of that stuff I didn't really. I wasn't able to process that until later on. But my postpartum was. It was confusing because I was so happy that I had a water birth. I, you know I did it without medication and all this stuff. But I had a lot of postpartum anger. I was so angry and it was like it stole the early days of me enjoying my baby.
0:28:26 - Emilee
I was very anxious. Did you know what you were angry like at, or was it just?
0:28:31 - Mikiah
No, it was just anger. I was well and I had visitors, you know, I had people staying in my house and then I was really angry about that and just lots of things. And I remember telling my husband I don't know what's going on, I just need you to, like, help me. I don't know, I don't know how. He didn't really know how to. I'm just like. I've never felt this kind of emotion before. I'm anxious, I'm sad, I'm angry and I don't know what about.
0:29:01 - Emilee
Oh, this is so, so, so, so, so, so common how women are set up to be sabotaged in their birth and then gaslit in their postpartum because everyone around them is saying, oh my God, water birth with midwives Like it's as good as it gets, da, da, da, da. And so there isn't any like healthy, sane reflection to women experiencing this, which is incredibly common, how what you're describing to emerge anxious, angry, depressed, shut down, disconnected. You know all these like kind of like, where, who is this person? What's happening? Because we don't have the language right.
When you have, when you put the language together, that you had an abusive, sabotaged birth, you know, with, with interruption, hormonal and physical fracture at every step, then, of course, it starts to make a lot of sense, right, like I think of, like a, you know, an animal that's like all caged up and abused, like. When they get out of the cage they're going to be a little funky, they're going to be all like weird, right, but your, your pitched, your birth is like as good as it gets, there's nothing to complain about and I I just saw a mom post something and it said like how do you process trauma?
0:30:23 - Mikiah
I had a traumatic home birth and then she shared her story and someone in the comments said at least you didn't transfer or get a C-section. And it was like so her, she can't have trauma because it's not what you think is more traumatic, right? And so I mean that's telling that mom. Don't tell your story, be quiet, be thankful that you gave birth at home, even though you were violated and abused.
0:30:48 - Emilee
It's really dangerous and we as as women, as individuals, as friends, we need to be really careful not to, in our own minds, unconsciously play into that. And a way in which I see women do it and I used to do it is comparing like, well, my trauma is not as bad as yours. Like, yeah, my, you know, upbringing had XYZ, but it didn't have that right. Like we do this in this like kind of privilege meets trauma, competition way. That's actually gaslighting ourselves of what is true for us and allowing us to have that right.
And for anyone listening, it's also important to say that birth trauma, trauma, is not a competition and it's incredibly subjective, it's incredibly personal. And when we see it and can hold it off of a competition spectrum, right, then we can actually get curious about it. And, of course, when you understand anything about physiological birth, you know I've seen some of the most severe PTSD in women I've seen actually has come from like I'm thinking of this one woman who her baby was taken away for three minutes, just three minutes. Right, we could minimize that whole thing, right, because compared to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you know that that's all the details I'm going to give about that birth, but the baby was taken away for three minutes and she had serious, serious night tears, anxiety, ptsd, and it was about, of course, of course it was about those three minutes.
0:32:28 - Mikiah
Mm horrible.
0:32:31 - Emilee
So what do you make of that? What's like your assessment now, three years out? Obviously you've gotten a lot of education around this. You have a very comprehensive grasp, you know of what happened, obviously in the way you told your story. So like I'd love to hear you talk about what you make of your birth.
0:32:55 - Mikiah
And I think about it daily. What would have happened if I just stayed home, if I said, no, let's not go check the baby, I'm just going to have a baby here, and just stayed home? How it could have been different. Or how maybe if I would have had the other midwife it would have been different. I don't. I doubt it, but I for me, it really helped me, learn me.
I thought that I was going to want support from a midwife, from, you know, a doula, whoever, and I realized I don't actually want anybody. I did my best, completely alone. My husband was at work, there was nobody else, I was completely alone. But still, I didn't really discover that until I was pregnant with my second and really starting to unravel all of this. So it's hard, because I don't want my son to like listen to this when he's older or grow up and be like, oh, my mom had a horrible birth but then a you know, a redeeming birth with my brother. But it taught me so much and it made me who I was, to be able to, you know, make better choices for myself.
0:34:16 - Emilee
And so I did grow from it.
Yeah, I think that's an important subject. You know how. How do we talk to our first when there is birth trauma, and I think it's a really important topic that I don't see a lot of conversation around, and I think moms can carry some kind of interesting flavor of guilt around the second child, like not having it right. And I guess I want to say first of all that your family is is like a like a turning of a wheel. Right, like all of you are players. It's not just about the mother and the first child, it's.
Healing can happen in the whole family with every birth, as I'm sure you've experienced, and that your son got to witness normal birth is a part, a significant part, of his story.
So, yes, the way he came out is, you know, muddled with all of this stuff, but you've also done the work to understand why. Right, and as you describe it to him when he's when it's age appropriate. I'm sure you will be very intentional with the words, because it's not that he was a naughty little boy that didn't come at 40 weeks, it's not that he needed any of the bullshit that happened to you guys, right, and that's the piece I think for moms listening with, with rough stories and with birth sabotage is shy of some like random, severe complication and emergency, which are quite rare. Most likely what happened was you had a shit team, you are betrayed and the system happened to you right and you were naive and you didn't know and that's not your fault. That's just kind of like how the whole thing is set up and then we know better and we do better and how we talk to our children about that I think can be done really skillfully in a way that doesn't blame you and the child. You know what I mean.
0:36:19 - Mikiah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for that, cause I I've cried about like how am I going to tell him this without him also being traumatized or feeling like he? You know, he didn't get the same experience, which but I mean truthfully he showed me how powerful I really was, cause I had no idea.
0:36:40 - Emilee
That's a pretty epic legend to walk with for him.
0:36:43 - Mikiah
Yeah, yeah.
0:36:45 - Emilee
You know, like he that he came in as to, to show you your power, like what a beautiful, what a beautiful gift in that story to really focus on when you do share it with him. And it is age appropriate. You know, I think we do need to be like age appropriate and how we tell birth stories, especially if there's trauma, because unprocessed trauma you know an unconscious trauma it leaks out in weird ways. Case in point, when you were pregnant and everyone was giving you their trauma stories. Like that is unprocessed. Well, even as a child, yeah, and as a child, that is irresponsible. You know trauma.
And so what does it mean to be responsible with our stories, right, and to do our own work on them? And your story is not his story, which is interesting, like there's facts, there's facts that occurred, and then there's your story about the facts and that's kind of a cool thing to play with, that you can share it in a way that is true, but also like has some spaciousness around. Yes, there's the facts and this is what I learned and take from that. Does that make sense? Yeah, mm, hmm, that makes sense. Yeah, but him getting to see you birth in power and that his birth and he was like the impetus for that is a profound family story and something to be proud of and not worried about. You know what?
0:38:13 - Mikiah
I mean.
0:38:14 - Emilee
Yeah. So when do you get the idea, this crazy idea, to do this thing in your own bathtub? And I know when we DM'd there was, you know, you brought up around the like getting my husband on board piece, and I want to make sure we talk about that because we both know that's a common scapegoat of why women don't take responsibility. So, yeah, flesh out what happens between you. Have the baby, you go through this confusing postpartum, as you called it, and when does when do things start to click into place and when does freebirth come in?
0:38:55 - Mikiah
So our second was a very intentional, conscious conception. I knew exactly when we got pregnant and I started back up with the birth center again, just thinking, I know, just thinking still we have to save insurance and but I'm still looking for midwives that I can have a home birth. So I haven't processed anything yet at this point and the one midwife that I really liked is no longer there. It's all different people. So it starts at my anatomy scan. I go into this ultrasound place and I have a horrible experience. They don't allow my child, they don't allow my husband, and it was a very long ultrasound. I was exhausted.
They looked at a lot of stuff and then the ultrasound text said so we found a little bit of fluid on the ventricles of your baby's brain. She said boys tend to have more fluid, and I don't remember the exact measurement. I wish I remembered, but it was like 0.02 centimeters out of the norm. I was like okay, well, how long have you been like studying the norm? She's like so it's really nothing to worry about, but our doctor wants to talk to you about it. I was like okay.
0:40:31 - Emilee
But we could make some money off you.
0:40:33 - Mikiah
Exactly so the doctor comes in and says basically the same thing. You had no other sign. However, this could be a sign of Down syndrome, and so we want to do another ultrasound to check and make sure the fluid goes down, and then maybe an amniocentesis and I didn't know what that was.
0:40:52 - Emilee
Amniocentesis, yeah.
0:40:54 - Mikiah
Yeah, so I asked her what that was and she explained it and I said no.
0:41:01 - Emilee
Oh, you don't want a needle stuck into your womb.
0:41:04 - Mikiah
Yeah, taking my baby's fluid. No, thank you, yikes. And I also didn't want to do the ultrasound because I told her, or I asked her, what was the medical reason and she said, well, it's really just to try to get a name on what this could be. And there was no other sign saying that he had Down syndrome. And I'm like, well, regardless if he has Down syndrome or not, I still want to birth him. And I still want to birth him, you know, not in a hospital. And she's like, well, you're not high risk yet, but we want you to do an ultrasound and make sure.
And so I'm like yeah, exactly, she's crying to risk me out. Yeah.
0:41:48 - Emilee
They want to make you high risk. They want to make you high risk so good, so much.
0:41:52 - Mikiah
I'm not doing this other ultrasound for anything. So I feel like the midwife is my friend, so I call her and I tell her what happened and I say I don't want to do the ultrasound. And she's like, well, we want you to do the ultrasound. And I'm like what's the medical reason? And she said it's for scheduling purposes, for, like, if he would need an MRI afterwards. And I'm just like no, no, no, no, no.
0:42:20 - Emilee
Whoa, I would refuse an MRI?
0:42:22 - Mikiah
I'm not, and so and I said I'm not going back to the group. I had a horrible experience with them and the doctor and when I said I didn't want the ultrasound, the doctor slipped her tone from this could be nothing to now your baby could have down syndrome. That could be serious like trying to scare me, of course. So I got out of there as fast as I could and I told her look, you can send out orders for another place. I'm not going back to that place and I had no intention of ever going to the ultrasound appointment.
She can do it if that's what she has to do, to check off her little list of oh, I sent out orders for that, but I won't be there. So apparently she sent out orders. I never got a call to schedule for the thing, so I was like, okay, great, that's fine, the next appointment I go to. I'm like 24 weeks, I think, and she's angry and she's like you were supposed to get an ultrasound weeks ago and I'm like, really, I didn't get a call or anything. And she's like well, we sent out orders. I guess I'll send them out again. Didn't ask me to verify information or anything, so she sent them out again.
0:43:49 - Emilee
Also, we should definitely send the birth center this episode.
0:43:54 - Mikiah
Yeah, so anyway, she sends out another thing, we do the appointment and everything is fine. So then I'm in the lobby, my son is playing with the toys they have out there, and she comes out to the lobby and sits down next to me and says you have gained so much weight.
I was like shocked because I was feeling better about my weight gain. It was less than with my first and no one said a word about my weight with my first, and so I was like what? And she was like you have gained so much weight, we just need you to lay off the carbs. And I don't even know what to say. But what made me more mad about that statement was that she didn't ask me a single thing about my diet or what my diet looks like, what I'm eating or anything. If she did, she would know that I am very intentional about what I put in my body. The carbs I do eat are homemade pastas. I mean. I like. I'm not. It's a domination technique.
0:45:05 - Emilee
You know what I mean. It has nothing to do. She just picked one of the domination strategies that are in her training, like what can I do to shame her and get her to be subordinate?
0:45:16 - Mikiah
I felt like she was mad at me for the ultrasound thing, and so she like came back out and was like you're fat. So then she tells me that she's setting me up an appointment with the nutritionist. And I'm like I'm like, oh, I took her class like a mandatory nutrition class. I'm like, oh, I already took it. She's like, well, we're she's going to get you set up on a diet to help you, like, maintain your weight.
0:45:40 - Emilee
This is such a horrible story.
0:45:42 - Mikiah
I know this is so bad.
And at this point I had already been listening to Free Birth Society podcast and looking into stuff, and so I had been thinking like I need a sign of what to do. And then this happens and I cry all the way home. And then when my husband gets off work, I tell him what happens and he's like cancel the nutrition appointment. And I said I can't go back at all. I am severely uncomfortable. How am I supposed to flirt with these people? I'm so uncomfortable. And so he's like okay, then you need to figure something out. And so I'm like okay, so I send them an email and say please cancel all my appointments, we're done.
0:46:30 - Emilee
Nice.
0:46:31 - Mikiah
And they send me an email back and they're like okay, we'll do. Well, then, like a month later, I get a call that I missed my appointment and they want to know why. I'm like I cancel all appointments, I'm not your patient anymore.
0:46:43 - Emilee
You're fired.
0:46:44 - Mikiah
So then one day at work my husband calls me and says hey, I just got a call that somebody's been trying to reach you and you've been ignoring them, and they said it's medically urgent. Oh, whatever, oh my God, I call this number down.
0:47:02 - Emilee
Get your cattle in line. Literally.
0:47:05 - Mikiah
I'm like, why did they call and tell on me to you?
0:47:08 - Emilee
Like you're ignoring us.
0:47:10 - Mikiah
So I call the number and it's another ultrasound place. They have had my orders. They've been trying to call me. Turns out they had the wrong number. I told the lady look at your caller ID. That's not my phone number and I'm not even seeing that doctor anymore. So I don't want to do the ultrasound. So, and she was really friendly on the phone but she was like we've been trying to call you for like months and you've been ignoring us. So after that I don't hear anything back. I get a bill from the birth center place and so I'm like, okay, good, they've finally given up on me.
0:47:51 - Emilee
So after it really like everyone forgets who works for who you know. Like this is a service they provide. That's it as our doctors. We hire them and insurance makes it more confusing because they're all in bed together, but we're hiring them through our insurance. Like this is a service that people literally do not grasp we are voluntarily opting into. And then the turnaround is that these assholes act like they're your daddy. It's so crazy.
0:48:31 - Mikiah
So I basically have convinced myself that I'm going to freebirth, but I have not convinced my husband. I'm currently trying to introduce the idea to him, trying to just get him used to it, and he's not. I'm like saying, well, what if I had an experienced mom come and be with us and she's given birth many times, she's got lots of experience, and he's like no, I would not be comfortable with that. In every scenario I would come up to try to get him on board with this. He was not comfortable and I was feeling really defeated. And then I was listening to the podcast and I wish I knew which episode it was.
But you say something about a mom or a lady saying, oh, I want to freebirth, but my husband won't let me. And then you were like no, you don't want to, because if you did, then you would, you would do anything to do that. And my initial response was like she has no idea what it's like to have an unsupportive partner, because her husband is totally supportive of her. And I felt upset initially and then it was like a pebble in my shoe. I kept thinking about your words like all day and I was like she is so right, I do. I want to, because if I want to, there's no other option. I compromised the first time and he doesn't live with the trauma.
He sees, oh, we have a healthy baby. I'm the one that thinks every day, what if I just stayed home? I'm living with the trauma. So then that night I brought it up to him again, trying to gently introduce it, and I'm saying like this is what I want. There's like no other option. And we're just talking in circles. And so I do kind of break down how I feel after our first born's birth and I think that kind of softened him a little bit, because he kind of then was like yeah, I didn't know you had those feelings because I haven't talked to anybody about this.
0:50:41 - Emilee
Whoa.
0:50:43 - Mikiah
But he's still like I'm not comfortable with it at all and I see that this conversation is going nowhere. So then I say, well, I'm not asking for your permission, I'm asking for your support. And he said so what? You're just gonna birth without me? Then and I just said in my mind I'm like I am prepared to do that, because that's how much I want to do this, that if that's what it takes, I will. But I say I'm just asking for your support. And then we end the conversation on that and we don't talk about it again until I'm 38 weeks pregnant and he asks me. We're driving in the car on the highway and out of nowhere he says so what's the birth plan? And I'm like I'm like 38 weeks pregnant, about to give birth, and now you wanna know what I'm doing. And so I say I'm birthing at home. And then he said okay, and that was it. And then we didn't talk about it again.
0:51:39 - Emilee
So was there like tension between when you're like I'm asking for your support until 38 weeks, like that's a pretty big deal yeah?
0:51:51 - Mikiah
so I made up my mind. I said this is the option. You can support me or not, but I'm not asking for your permission. And yeah, there was tension. We didn't speak about birth because he didn't want to and I didn't want to bring it up and make him mad or bring up a whole thing again. So I kept myself, which I'm actually really grateful that he was like that, because I didn't realize how codependent I was of his opinion and his advice.
So when I was researching things like what do I wanna do with the cord, do I wanna cut it? Do I wanna burn it? Do I wanna have a lotus birth, I would think, oh, I should ask Colin what he wants to do. And then it would be like, no, I'm not talking to Colin about it, I'm making the decision. So then I would do it, I would get the supplies and I just put together everything I wanted in a bag, had it next to the bed and what I have to say about, like, how to get your husband on board with freebirth is don't, it's not their decision, and I know that's easier said than done, but truthfully, like you said, women own birth and if your husband even though you and your husband made a baby. If he wasn't there, you're still gonna give birth. The only people that need to be there is you and your baby, and that's the only people who should be making decisions about where or how you birth.
0:53:25 - Emilee
That's true and I would just add a layer there that it's okay if your husband's uncomfortable, like that's really okay and that's understandable and I do. I do a lot of sessions with couples where that is the tension point and really what's underneath that is, the mother is, whether she's aware of it or not is prioritizing his comfort above all. And making up the story again, unconscious or not, that for this to work, for this to be allowed, for my partner to support this new baby like there's so much deep stuff in there that I don't think is totally conscious he needs to be comfortable and he needs to give his blessing right, which kind of go? They kind of go hand in hand. And so a lot of the work I do is what if we just what, if we all just say to each other it's okay that you're uncomfortable, and let's start there, because because yes, everything you just said, yes, totally, and it is, as you lived, a real tension point for a lot of couples.
And I think that as women and as wives, partners, something we can do if you're in this position, if you feel like it, you don't need to. But part of the work could be how can I so fully accept exactly where and how he is and have that be independent of my choices, right, cause what you just said, naming your codependence, that's what's up, like you're responsible for my life and I'm responsible for your life and I need you to fill in the blank in order for me to fill in the blank. And that's codependency, right, like it's your fault that I'm mad, right, that's. And really honestly, most people are in codependent relationships, you know, and you have to really learn out of it, because it is kind of the default, you know, dynamic.
0:55:35 - Mikiah
Yeah, so I had to practice it a lot, doing that. Every decision I made I did on my own, and now I even see myself as a mom being less codependent of his opinion, and so it's. I mean, yeah, it's made me confident and yeah, so I, basically since I didn't really know how he was gonna be during the labor and birth, I didn't want him to really do anything. As long as he just took care of our son and did stuff for him. I knew he would do that. I just wanted to be left alone to do my thing and it made me have to be stronger, basically, and because I didn't want him to be nervous or anything like that and I don't know, freak out or something.
But so around, let's see here, 41 weeks is when I went into labor. So the night before I was feeling kind of discouraged and just that I hadn't gone, I don't know. I think just all the emotions were happening and people were being nosy, asking me when I was gonna be induced and all this stuff, and I really was just telling people whatever they needed to hear to protect my peace. So people thought I was birthing in hospital. Birthing was midwives. I just told people I was just gonna be induced and birthing was midwives. I just told people all different kinds of things. I didn't even tell people the right due date. I told everyone a different due date and then I was confused when I was actually due which was really helpful because I was 41 weeks and then like oh, Maybe I'm not.
Yeah, we were really like Even my husband was telling people that I was due like a week later than I actually was, which was fine. But so we went out, we went golfing. I kind of became a permit because people were just bothering me so much, asking me like really personal questions, but I was like please mind your business.
0:57:45 - Emilee
And then I joke with that, when women get harassed at the end is that you should turn around and ask them their favorite sexual position, like oh, how dilated are you. I don't know you wanna know what's happening in my vagina Like how's your butt this morning?
0:58:01 - Mikiah
How's your like? You know, like, give me a treat. Men will ask you that. Men were asking me like what are you dilated? I'm like greasy Stay in your lane, bro.
0:58:13 - Emilee
But they're laying. They literally have been groomed to think that their lane is to know and be entitled to everything about us.
0:58:20 - Mikiah
Yeah, so we go golfing. I tell my husband I just really want like a greasy cheeseburger right now. He's like, okay, we go, I eat that, I'm happy. And then that night I take a really long bath. I'm feeling kind of defeated, like I just need to let go and stop letting these people get in my head. So I told my mom I was freebirthing. And then I told my one friend, the one that took pictures at my first son's birth those were the only two people in my mother-in-law. Those were the only people that knew my actual plans. Everyone else I was just telling like whatever I wanted. So I took a bath, I had a really good cry and then I went into bed and I had a great night's sleep and my husband was sleeping with my toddler.
Because I was very pregnant, very uncomfortable, and I just wanted to be alone, I guess sleep alone. And so I woke up at like a couple of minutes before 6 am and I felt pretty crampy and so I was like, okay, this is either the cheeseburger or I'm like starting early labor, like going there, I go to the bathroom, I text my friend you know I might be in labor, I don't know and I'm like, okay, if I am gonna have a baby today, I want to take a shower. I wanna have clean hair and stuff like that. I wanted to feel like sensual, I guess, like cute and yeah. So I took a shower and I decided to reach in and check myself. I had been checking myself because I like to be, I like to know what's going on with my body. So I knew what my cervix felt like, I knew where it was at and I wasn't gonna hurt myself.
1:00:11 - Emilee
No, of course not.
1:00:12 - Mikiah
And so I reach in and I feel my cervix immediately and I feel this tight stack bulging out and I'm like, oh, I am in labor. And so then it was like once I told myself that the cramping switched to surges of like I'm feeling this, and then I'm getting a break, and so I got out of the shower and I put on like this little bra and this robe, this silk robe that my husband got me from Japan, and I felt really cute. And then I was going to put on like some makeup and I started brushing my eyebrows and I was like I cannot go any further than this.
This is like this is starting to get pretty intense. I want to focus. So I was really talking to myself, staying in the right mindset, because with my first, when my labor stalled or whatever, whatever happened there, I was really frustrated and so I told myself, okay, if my labor takes a pause again, I'm going to be thankful, I'm going to thank my body for giving me a break. And so that's what I did over and over and over again. Every time I felt a surge, I was saying thank you. I was saying you know, open all these different things, whatever came to my mind, and I was moving in different positions with every single surge, like an animal, Just whatever my body was telling me. I was doing deep squats, which felt really tight, but in a comfortable way. It felt comforting to do that. And one thing, sister morning star said on your podcast about watching wild animals give birth in the wild non-captivity. And so I was doing that. I was like Googling orangutan giving birth, flamingo giving, like every animal.
1:02:14 - Emilee
I don't think I've ever seen that. I don't know.
1:02:17 - Mikiah
It's just like, look, my search history is probably like insane. I think this woman Awesome. But yeah, and they move around. And I mean I've seen dogs give birth, I've seen cats give birth and they are moving around like crazy. And that's how I felt was like this primal gorilla moving around.
And around seven-ish my toddler woke up and came in and wanted to nurse and so I nursed him, which made the surges like intensify so much and it was really painful. But I was wanting to like pause and just appreciate the moment because I knew he's my only baby. And then after this you know this is the last time I'm nursing him as my only child so then my husband came in and saw me like on the floor in my robe, nursing him, like in pain, and he's like, are you in labor? And I was like yeah, and then my husband just takes the toddler and leaves the room and then I focus, I'm just doing my thing. And then he comes in. I can hear him like making breakfast and turning on a movie for our son, which was perfect. I'm like, okay, good, he's taken care of.
And then my husband comes in and says do you want to get in the bath? And I wasn't sure where I was. I wanted to choose in the moment where to give birth. I kind of wanted to try to have a land birth because I had a water birth my first. And then I was like, okay, maybe I'll, maybe this baby will, let's be born on the land and I'll be able to experience those. But I was like, yeah, that sounds really nice.
So, again, without any discussion of how I wanted him to play a role in my labor, he had the lights off, handles lit and the bath going, which was like perfect, I couldn't have asked for it. That's exactly how I would have asked if we would have talked about it. So then I get in and I'm drinking coconut water, he brings in some honey and he'll leave. He'll bring in toast and leave, so really just bringing me snacks and drinks and then leaving me alone again. And there's one point where he was standing in the doorway kind of watching and I just say no, and then he walks away and doesn't come back again, like don't watch me, like an animal, just leave me alone. So I feel like a huge surge in my water, like burst and it scared me because I had never felt that
before and I yelled like my water's opened or something like that, and he like came in. He was like your water broke and I was like yep, and then he left again and then a couple more surges later and I could feel him coming down and I wanted my son to witness. I wanted my husband to witness, and so I said, okay, come in, turn on the light and bring our son in. So he did that and it was like minutes the head started coming out and at one part I said can you see his head? And my husband said yes, and then I had put like a little. I had a bag of just like stuff that I wanted and I had a little handheld mirror in there. So he gave me the mirror and you could not see. But yeah, I think he was just trying to like encourage me or something Liar.
I know he was like, I do not know what I'm looking at down there.
1:05:39 - Emilee
I know.
1:05:40 - Mikiah
I'm like and I don't think I was even in a position where he could see I was just like, can you see his head? And he was like yep.
1:05:46 - Emilee
I remember asking my husband if he could see anything and he just went my first kid he went. It has a face.
1:05:55 - Mikiah
Like was her face down? Like facing your back?
1:05:58 - Emilee
I don't know.
1:06:00 - Mikiah
So it has a face it has a face.
1:06:02 - Emilee
That's what he said to me.
1:06:03 - Mikiah
That's really good. I just kept my hand there, which was really comforting, just to feel what was going on, and I could feel wrinkly skin with some fuzz, which was like this, the most amazing thing to feel I love. I would just rub my hand over the wrinkles and he's coming out. And the surges were like taking over every ounce of my body, like you could see my veins popping out. It was so crazy, a crazy feeling.
But I remember stretching and feeling a burning sensation and feeling like my butthole was being so stretched and telling myself low, made to stretch, and it was like it was still that sensation, it was still tight, but I was able to relax and just trust that my body knew what it was doing.
So his head came out and I was like shocked to see his face down because I thought for sure he would be sunny side up. I didn't have back labor or anything like that, but I just thought he was going to be like looking up at me and so he was head down and I was like there's a space and I think my son is saying like that he can see that there's a baby there. And as I'm giving birth, he was sucking on the honey I ate like half of a honey stick, and so he was sucking on the rest of it. And so then I birth his shoulders and I can see the cord around his neck. I was expecting the cord around his neck. That is like that was normal for me. It was not a shocking thing and there was not an ounce of me that was concerned at all. It was for a reason he knew what to do, which is why the cord was around his neck.
1:08:00 - Emilee
So I just went to do it. It's also just like cultural myth that that's a bad thing, like it's highly adaptive, it's an intelligent, normal thing for babies to do.
1:08:10 - Mikiah
Yeah, exactly. And so the shoulders are born. I'm lifting it over and I think my husband thought I was going to like lift him out. So he said like don't lift him out of the water yet, or something like that. But I wasn't even listening to what was being said or done and I felt another contraction. I lifted him up on me and my son's like oh baby, and I'm just kind of like rubbing him. It was so calm. I was really hoping that I would go into like this amazing birth world and like not be there, but unfortunately that is not.
What was it? I was so present and like I just was really clear minded and just rubbing his back. Not an ounce of me was concerned about the time it took for him to transition, because I knew that he would. I knew he was perfect. He was opening his eyes, calmly, just opening his eyes, and it shocked my husband too, because this is the first time my husband has seen undisturbed, normal, real birth. And so he's like that's crazy, he's amazed. And then I lift my son up to me and then that's when he starts crying. I don't know how long it took him to transition, but I was rubbing his back, kissing him. We were just gently talking to him and that was so important to me that nobody was aggressively rubbing him, wiping his face, squeezing his feet, forcing anything, is that?
1:09:48 - Emilee
really so much to ask, literally, can we just respect the most important moment of my entire life?
1:09:58 - Mikiah
Yeah, just enjoying this amazing moment and together as a family, just us, exactly how I had manifested it to be. And I felt some cramping and I wanted also birthing. The placenta on my own was like the second most important thing After birthing my baby. I really was looking forward to being able to do that, since it was stripped from me the first time. I didn't even know what that felt like. So I felt some cramping and I fell on the cord and it still was attached. It wasn't ready to come out yet. So I nursed a little bit, he latched and nursed a little bit, but he didn't nurse a ton. And then I felt cramping again and a little bit like half of the placenta came out, but it was still kind of attached. So we waited some more. We probably waited like 30 minutes in the tub just hanging out and nursing on and off. And then I tried again and the placenta came out and we put it in a bowl and I was like amazed. It had the deepest, like most beautiful color. It was just incredible to look at and my son was looking at it like so amazed too. So, yeah, we just spent time in the bath and then my husband turned the lights off again so that we could just be calm.
And I had bought I heard another mom on the podcast say that she bought painter's claw for like birth on because it would be like waterproof. So I bought that because I thought maybe I'd want a birth on land, but I didn't end up using it. So my husband put it on the bed like a sheet basically, and then I just went in like free blood on that. We all snuggled in bed and just took our time. We watched a movie, we ate eggs and we thought about what we would call him and then eventually I wanted to separate him from his cord.
It was kind of cold, it was getting like dog hair on it, and so we I had bought some beeswax candles and it took about 10 minutes to do it and then after it burned off, I tied it in the knot and we enjoyed our morning. And then when my toddler laid down for a nap, then we called family and let them know that he was here, which was really fun. But one thing I feel like was a huge game changer in my postpartum was having absolutely nobody come to visit. Nobody. It was completely just our family. I invited one friend. She brought a big bowl of fruit, he sat down, she listened to my story and she went home and that was it.
1:12:51 - Emilee
How long did you not have visitors?
1:12:54 - Mikiah
So she came. I invited her maybe like four days after. He was there for like 30 minutes or something, and then we had a family wedding a week after and I decided I wanted to go. My entire family would be there. I'm the youngest of six and so all my siblings were going to be there, and so I decided to go and I figured I would leave. So then I went out and you know, they met the baby and came back. It was too soon to be out.
1:13:26 - Emilee
Yeah, I know, you know that.
1:13:29 - Mikiah
I know, but it was important to me that you know, my family did meet him, but nobody came to my house for like two months and so and that was amazing that we were able to just be naked, nursing you know, bleeding, just whatever, recovering. So yeah, it was significantly different. I had on the third day. I had a moment of anxiety where I was like it can't be this good, this is like there's no way that it's good. And then my husband is like Micaiah, he's perfect and that's it. And then I was like you're right. And then nothing, nothing since then.
1:14:17 - Emilee
So so is your husband, a changed man now.
1:14:22 - Mikiah
I think he is. I mean, I told him if we ever got pregnant again, there would be no way to ever do this again, and he was like yeah, there's no way. I just I wanted it to be totally normal a normal Friday, except mom gave birth in the bathroom and then we continue. And that's exactly what it was. It was totally normal, except now we have two boys instead of one. And I know my brother. When we told him that he was born, my brother asked Colin if he felt nervous at all and he said no, not at all. There wasn't a time. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. Yeah, there wasn't a time at all where he was worried or nervous and he stayed. You know, he stayed in his lane. He let me do my thing, and that's all I wanted for a support person. That is all I wanted. I wouldn't have changed anything about it.
1:15:17 - Emilee
So proud of you.
1:15:18 - Mikiah
Thank you.
1:15:19 - Emilee
So amazing.
1:15:21 - Mikiah
And it's hearing other women's stories I heard so many that were similar to my birth, you know and it's hearing their stories that really does empower you to trust your instincts. You have the knowledge in you, just like mammals. They don't have to be taught how to birth. The knowledge is in you on how to birth and take care of your baby. Just let your primal self take over.
1:15:47 - Emilee
And, like, quiet the noise, close it up. You'll find your way if you just close it up. Yeah, yeah, well, thank you. Thank you so so, so much. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Yeah, it's really great. Appreciate your time.
1:16:04 - Mikiah
Thank you.
