0:00:02 - Emilee
Bibi welcome to the show.
0:00:05 - Bibi
Hi Emilee, thank you so much for having me.
0:00:09 - Emilee
This is going to be more interesting than I even realized.
0:00:13 - Bibi
Yeah, I can't wait.
0:00:15 - Emilee
Okay, let's get right into it. So all I know. All I know is that you are a registered midwife in Australia. You have three babies. One is a set of twins. You freebirthed all of them. So there just feels like so much ground for us to cover here. So why don't you just start wherever you want you know which comes first the midwifery, the medical midwifery or the baby and just take it away? Tell us who you are as you get pregnant with that first.
0:00:46 - Bibi
Yeah, absolutely. So. I did my studies in midwifery when I was 19 years old oh and yeah in Italy. Then I came to Australia, I did uni again and then I started working in the system. I when I fall pregnant with my first baby that was two in 2018. I was working in Queensland. I was building refugee clinics, so for women that were coming from refugee countries, we were doing continuity of care, so they will have same midwives from six weeks up and from 12 weeks up until six weeks, and that's when I fall pregnant with my first baby.
And it was a very interesting time of my life because I started to notice that was my first time being with the woman. For such a long time, I've always been part of the fragmented care at the hospital and that was normal to me, first time being involved in continuity of care. And it was very exciting because I was seeing how women actually had positive birth, positive breastfeeding. Everything was so normal and so perfect, and so I thought to myself well, that is what I want as well for my pregnancy birth and, you know, breastfeeding. So when I was pregnant, I decided that I wanted a private midwife, because my idea was to have a home birth because, as a midwife, I've seen it all at the hospital and for me it was not going to be my safe place. As we say to women, you should birth where you feel safe. The hospital was not going to feel safe to me as a black woman, as a midwife, as the person that I was, so I wanted.
0:02:43 - Emilee
Do you mind pausing there for a second? I mean, I'd love to hear a little bit more about you know, from this really inside perspective of you working in the system, that's so profound that you, through your profession, come to realize that the hospital will not be safe for you and your baby. Can you articulate how you came to know that?
0:03:11 - Bibi
Yeah, I think like what refugee women taught me, and I feel like everything was just like all this story. It was just all so meant to be for me to be here in this moment, you know, because when I took the job with refugee women, I knew nothing, like I was just a baby. I knew nothing, you know, and they just said to me like oh baby, it's fine, we just have babies. And I'm like what do you mean? They're like no, it's just normal. You know, because they're coming from countries where is Hayda? You get that baby out vaginally, or you get it out vaginally the end.
So when they came to Australia, it was just the same. So whenever they call me, you know they're like okay, we're ready to have a baby, I'll get into the hospital and off you go, baby, there's no label, there's nothing, baby. I was like wow, like what is this? You know, and I just learned that from them that label and birth actually can be easy If we just let them be. And so for me, I was like I just want to let, I just want to be, let be. You know, I don't want people to touch me or just come into my environment. I just wanted to just have my bird, as I wanted, at home in this term, and that was it. That was my dream.
0:04:35 - Emilee
So you, just you, came to understand that as you learned trust in birth you came to understand that Couldn't unfold that way in the hospital.
0:04:51 - Bibi
No.
0:04:51 - Emilee
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that sounds like no not for me.
0:04:54 - Bibi
Not for me, because for me it's like when I go into the hospital, because I worked there, I was working there, I could anticipate any, everything, and so that would have put some level, somewhat a level of higher anxiety for me, because I see a trolley, I know you're going to, you want to put an IV, me you know, so, so it's like I see the future when I go in. So for me I was like no, I could not have.
0:05:26 - Emilee
I mean you, just, you, just know the truth.
0:05:29 - Bibi
Yeah.
0:05:30 - Emilee
It's just you understand how it works. It's interesting because I think the vast majority of women, mothers who work in labor and delivery and postpartum, you know there's such a deep part of the cult that they, they, they submit themselves to go through the assembly line as a part of fitting in to the culture in which they work. You know what I mean? Yeah, and it's pretty like, it's pretty not acceptable in a lot of hospital culture I've been exposed to to not go through, yeah, so anyway, I appreciate that.
0:06:11 - Bibi
Yeah, it can be intense.
0:06:14 - Emilee
So you come to realize birth works F the hospital. I want a private midwife. What happens next?
0:06:22 - Bibi
Yeah, well, I hire the private midwife, thinking this is the best thing that I could do, supporting a colleague having my private midwife. And then around 20 weeks I had my morphology scan. During this morphology scan they found out that I had three, five bromas, about five centimeters each. In Australia, when you do have a private midwife that has got hospital rights, every month they do a case study so they have to show the women that they are going to attend the home birth. So my private midwife is showing my case with my three, five brown, five bromas and the obstetrician at the hospital, because she's got rights at the hospital, in case you know, she has to go in. It just means she doesn't lose the care of the patient, of the woman. So the obstetrician said, well, she can't be at home, she's going to the morphology, she can die. And oh yeah, the you know the story. So she came to me and she said, well, you can't be at home.
0:07:31 - Emilee
So it's interesting how how the system uses the intentionally uses the opposite word like a private midwife right, and in England independent midwives are not that at all Like there's nothing private about what you just described, because private leads us to believe that this woman works for you.
0:07:58 - Bibi
Yeah.
0:07:59 - Emilee
It's so tricky.
0:08:02 - Bibi
Yes, so that day for me was the end of the world. I started crying so much, my eyes were coming out of my face. I was driving home, got home, couldn't see the road, had a little accident in my garage. I was desperate, almost had a panic attack, laying on the floor being like this is the end of the world. So my husband was really gentle with me. I'm like a bit, you know, dramatic, of course. So he held space for me and at one point, I don't know where, out of the blue, I was like what if I just do it by myself?
0:08:46 - Emilee
Yeah.
0:08:48 - Bibi
You know, and so I fired the midwife was like you fired I don't need you, you know, because I want to have a home. And then I start Googling and then you came up.
0:09:01 - Emilee
Oh, that's amazing.
0:09:04 - Bibi
Yeah, so the Free Birth Society came up and I think maybe there was like a Facebook group could be 2018.
0:09:11 - Emilee
Yeah, that's before all the drama.
0:09:14 - Bibi
Yeah, yeah, so yeah. And then I was like what is this? I'm like, so, keep in mind, that is like beginning of 2019. I have been a midwife for 10 years. Oh my God. No idea about freebirth, no idea that women could consciously, you know, choose to just birth at home without a midwife, right? And I'm like what, wow? And that's when I decided that I was going to freebirth with my first son, and so that's the second half of your pregnancy that all of this is coming into view for you.
0:10:05 - Emilee
So yeah, just keep telling us the story. What happens next and how does it go?
0:10:09 - Bibi
So, yeah, so I dropped everything. I was like, okay, well, that's it, I'm just gonna have a freebirth. I was like so happy, you know, but I did something very stupid of me because I was very naive at that point. I was really a baby Like the version you see today of me. It's, oh my gosh, goddess, really, you know, but I was a baby and so what I did is I told my colleagues and I told my manager and I'm like hey, you can freebirth.
And my colleagues, the first thing she said to me is like yeah, but what if you kill your baby? Yeah, and your baby is like dead, yeah, and like if you're not like in the system, you don't like really know, but this kind of conversation it's like every day. You know you could kill your baby, your baby could die, this can happen, this sort of thing can happen, like it's very normal, this type of I guess talking to women that are pregnant, you know, but I was pregnant as well and I was very fragile at that point and I understood very quickly that I had to protect my space, and so from that on, from that day, I was like, yeah, that's fine, I will birth at the hospital. So I just said that I was going to birth at the hospital. But I knew that I wasn't going to birth at the hospital. I told my husband, I got him ready. I said we need to do this.
0:11:33 - Emilee
How worried were you about the fibroids, like, did that mess with you at all?
0:11:40 - Bibi
Nah, okay, nah, like, honestly, when she said that for me I was like this is just an excuse. Is that silly? You know, like all women have fibroids and we do know that during pregnancy they can become a little bit bigger because of the hormones. So I was like I don't care. You know, like it wasn't a bit, for me it was like something so silly that I'm like I can't believe you're telling me I can't birth at home for the possibility that I'm married, oh, 100% 100% Like yeah. Yeah.
0:12:10 - Emilee
Yeah.
0:12:10 - Bibi
You're speaking to a midwife, you know what I mean. So I was like, no, like no, no really.
0:12:16 - Emilee
And you're speaking to a disillusioned midwife.
0:12:19 - Bibi
Yeah.
0:12:20 - Emilee
Right specifically.
0:12:22 - Bibi
Yeah. So I was like nah, no, no, no, okay. So what happened? There is.
0:12:28 - Emilee
Yeah, you lock it down, You're like, oh shit, this is a totally different terrain. I'm not telling anyone, of course. I'm in a birth at the hospital.
0:12:37 - Bibi
Yeah. So to do that, though, because I didn't want them to know anything about me in the hospital where I was working, I went to another hospital to do a booking in visits. It's just a visit. You say you're pregnant. Yes, okay, you're good bye. So went into the visit. So I'm quite small, short. I'm about 155, 156 centimeters. So I grow my belly at the front right. So the obstetrician looks at me and says and he's like oh my gosh, your belly is so big. I don't think this baby is gonna come out vaginally. We need to do a scan Like that.
0:13:21 - Emilee
You want to scan show Like this is such a dumb, freaking thing.
0:13:27 - Bibi
Oh, I know, I keep in mind I was already 36 weeks there, you know. So I was ready, you know. So I said, okay, that's fine. Just, I didn't wanna do any drama at that point because I was so in tune with my plan that I was like I'm not gonna make anybody ruin it. They said that's fine, just give me this slip. I took this slip, left the hospital, put it in the bin, went back home and just kept doing my thing. Right, girl, that was my thing. So I was like yeah, this is what I'm going to do.
And then around 40 weeks roughly 40, maybe, plus one day, plus two, I don't even know the contraction started. So before actually the contraction started, I said to my husband I think we're gonna have a baby tomorrow. He's like what do you mean? I said no, no, no, no, I think we're gonna have a baby tomorrow. So I said let's go for a walk. We went for a walk, came home we had some spicy food and then I use some clary sage. I said let's just have this clary sage and tomorrow we're having a baby. He's like okay, because my husband is in the fence. So the 25th he had to go on March. So we're like we need to have the baby before the 25th of.
0:14:44 - Emilee
April oh goodness, oh my gosh okay.
0:14:47 - Bibi
So I was like yeah yeah, we're gonna have a baby, we're gonna have a baby. So anyway, on the night of the 24th I started having my contractions and they were just normal, like Braxton X I would say, and it was about midnight so I didn't wake up anybody, because I used to have those all night. So I was like sounds pretty normal to me. And then I think, around I started like turning on the shower because I'll just go in the shower and see whether they go away or not, cause I'm like I always say to women just go in the shower, if they go away, then that's fine. So I'll jump in the shower. So went into the shower and they were still there. So I woke up my husband around 1 am and I said I think I'm starting to be in labor, so maybe just start. You know, the bowl, the candle, like all these things, like I just want everything perfect, cause I was like nothing has to ruin the best day of our life, you know, like nothing. So around one. So I was feeling well, to be honest, I was feeling well, I was happy, I was dancing, I was, I was smiling, I was so full of joy, you know, and for me I was not in labor yet. But at one point I threw up. So when I threw up, actually my mom woke up, cause my mom was here from Italy. So she woke up and she's like are you okay? And I said yeah, yeah, I'm fine, I'm just I just threw up, fine, right.
So the contractions started and they were just coming, but not painful, like there was nothing painful at that point. So I said to my husband look, I've been a midwife for 10 years. I know how these things go. I'm a primate. So I was talking to him as a midwife, right, medical professional. I'm like, I'm a primate. This is my first baby, you know. It could go for 36 hours. So how about you go and take a camera or take some pictures or put some clothes on?
But I said, let me just check before you go. So I put my finger to see how many centimeters I was and I could feel the head of the baby. But I could feel the cervixes. I was like ladies, like two to three centimeters. I'm like, ah, that's fine, just go. So I sent him out. It's 2.15, send him out. And then I was just like drying myself and getting ready and then at one point I just bearded out and yell and the head came out, oh my God. So my husband like quickly come in, and he took a picture of the, just of the head, and he's like what the? And then I'm like, oh, and that's it, and the baby was out.
0:17:36 - Emilee
That is chill.
0:17:39 - Bibi
That's it.
0:17:39 - Emilee
I hope so.
0:17:40 - Bibi
No pain, no nothing, no, pushing, nothing.
0:17:45 - Emilee
That's amazing. I also love the medical midwife in you in the room doing what they all do, thinking that the centimeters means anything you know and like talking to yourself out of it.
0:18:02 - Bibi
That's so funny, wow.
0:18:05 - Emilee
And his little head just comes right out. So how? From 1pm, when is it sorry? 1am, when is it now that he's born?
0:18:13 - Bibi
218.
0:18:15 - Emilee
That is fast, very, but pain-free. Yeah, amazing, it's no pain.
0:18:21 - Bibi
Nothing. So I was like, oh, this was so easy. I'm like I can't believe I just did this, you know, Wow it was extremely easy and, as I, when he came out he didn't even cry.
That freaked me out, because I'm used to like baby coming out and just crying. Came out and just looked at me like that Peaceful, peaceful, and I was like, oh, I didn't know that babies could be born like, just like looking at you and that was it. Wow, and that was it. And then the placenta came as well. Like two minutes after there was no bleeding, nothing like it was all good, wow, it was just a very quick, like yeah, quick, fast, amazing. So I knew I needed some stitches. So I did go later to get the stitches and it turned out that it was a third degree, but it was like a physiological third degree, so it wasn't like they just put stitches and everything was normal, went back, I discharged myself. Actually they're like oh no, you have to stay here two nights with the catheter and everything. And I was like no. So I went, got a syringe, got my catheter out and I said give me the paper, I'm out and are you?
0:19:41 - Emilee
are you now because that was what five years ago, or?
0:19:45 - Bibi
four years. Yeah, four years and a half ago.
0:19:48 - Emilee
So are you like hip to the truth about vaginal tearing now that like you didn't need that and like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that will feel interesting.
0:20:01 - Bibi
Look when I when, when everything happened, I was like, well, I got a third degree. I'm like no, just take a picture, I do not believe you. And it took a picture and it was a third degree and that was like it was so fine. Honestly that because what, like? Whenever I saw third degree, they were provoked. I mean an epizodemy, extended force, a ventures like provoked third degree.
So those are like nasty. Mine was that. I just said no more there. I guess like just a tear, and I always say to women don't be scared of that, because you'll be fine.
0:20:39 - Emilee
But you, I mean like, do you now know, four years later, that the sutures weren't necessary? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, like you would have totally healed.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, this like this whole thing that we're all doing of just like, just like climbing out of our medical programming and our conditioning and just every, every year and every baby, we just learned so much, yeah, you know, it's amazing. So you go and then you come back and that sounds like somewhat undramatic. And then, who are you now Like? Now you have this freebirthing baby, you're a registered midwife and what happens next?
0:21:25 - Bibi
I breastfeed the baby for 21 months, naturally. So I was just like being a mom. And then I was like and then, you know, covid hit, my husband, went away for seven months.
0:21:40 - Emilee
Whoa yeah oh my. God.
0:21:43 - Bibi
Yeah, yeah. So I was here by myself with my kid, couldn't leave Australia. So I was like, okay, I'll just go, I'll go back and work. So I was just doing part time, like two days a week, and just kept me saying, really I needed something at that point. But when he was back, as I was like, I'm ready, let's go again, and so I was ready. So fall pregnant and during my I was really sick. So I had to go to the hospital around eight weeks because I just couldn't. I couldn't even open my eyes, I couldn't even walk. So I went in there and they're like, oh, we're just going to do a scan. And I'm like, no, you don't need any scan, right?
0:22:25 - Emilee
now, what did you go in there? For what did you want them to do? Fluids.
0:22:30 - Bibi
I just needed some fluids because I was throwing up like anything, everything, like I could not keep down, like anything it was, it was crazy. So I just wanted some fluids so I could go home and keep living my life and so, yeah, so they gave me fluids, went home and then a couple of weeks after I went in for my first scan and surprise the way twins.
So I cried and I was happy, but I also cried a lot because, because I wanted to have a freebirth again and I was like, well, now I need to have a C-section and I have to have, you know, scan every two weeks they have to measure the babies, the placenta, the flaws. This was going all through my head. You know, this was me. And then I was like I was going to work and I'm like I went on your podcast and I'm like, let me see if woman have twin freebirths at home.
And then someone had freebirth, the twin, of course, I think someone in Hawaii, if I'm, if I can remember right, someone from Hawaii. And so I listened to the story and I went down the rabbit hole and I'm like, what, you can actually freebirth twins, like naturally at your home, by yourself. And so I started like researching and just informing myself, educating myself, and I was like, so you're telling me that I don't need to have a C-section, I don't need to have all these cans and I can also have my freebirth, the same way I did with my son.
0:24:27 - Emilee
And in fact, that's the safest, healthiest possible route you could take.
0:24:35 - Bibi
Yeah, it is Right.
0:24:37 - Emilee
Like you think the hospital is dangerous for a medical midwife, black woman, all the stuff with a singleton. They're going to just put you in surgery and risk your life.
0:24:50 - Bibi
Yeah, you know, yeah, and I was like for me, I was like I rather died than have a C-section. That was me and I was like no, no, no, no, no. So I didn't tell my husband straight away. I was going to prepare him for this. I think it was a big bigger thing than you know with Milo, because there were two, there were twins, and so what happened is we went for the morphology scan and we were just like, kind of, we were still into the COVID situation, you know. So I'm sitting waiting for my morphologist can and, let's say, the room is about 20 meters from when I'm, when I'm sitting with my husband and they're like, oh, it can't come in. I'm like, why? Oh well, you know, new rules, policy, whatever. And I'm like what do you think? Put these babies in me? And he is sitting next to me. I mean like that's not about you, whatever, you know, it's not even about you.
0:25:52 - Emilee
It's also not about logic.
0:25:55 - Bibi
Yeah, as we know. So I kind of had a panic attack then and I just realized that if there is something that I really want is the support of my husband. And that day I really made the decision and I said you know what? I tell you what we'll do the scan, and you never see me again. And that was it that disappeared. Nobody knew what I was doing, unless you check my Instagram. So I didn't do anymore scan. I didn't do anymore until I had to visit and I just live my life, live my pregnancy, went to the beach every second day and listen to your podcast every day. And then there was also another group on Facebook reading two stories and trusting my babies, trusting my body. And yeah, and I was ready for my next freebirth.
Okay take a sip of it. How does that?
0:26:59 - Emilee
all go.
0:27:01 - Bibi
So I think the pregnancy with the twins it's been very challenging. Not challenging for, like, yes, my body, but challenging because I received a lot of negativity. People were saying to me you are so crazy, you're going to kill your babies, you are so dangerous. It's been really hard and very difficult to, because at that point I had already 300,000 followers on TikTok and lots more. Yeah, it was that.
0:27:34 - Emilee
Oh, so this was all online what you're referencing. So were you public? Yeah, but let me make sure I have that. So you were public on your social media about that your plan to freebirth twins.
0:27:48 - Bibi
At that point yes.
0:27:49 - Emilee
Oh well, of course it was insane. Of course, yeah, but they love that.
0:27:57 - Bibi
At that point. Yes, I was public. So what happened is that at one point I was like, okay, I need to really protect my space now, protect my energy, protect my babies, and so I kind of like disconnected a little bit from everybody and that was really good. I was really happy about it. And people thought that, you know, I would never get to pass 37 weeks. So Christmas day I'm like 37 weeks and everybody is like Merry Christmas, Are you pregnant yet? Are you still pregnant? I was like, yeah, I'm still pregnant, really, really pregnant. So after that I was about 38 weeks and two days and I said to my husband okay, we're ready to have the babies. That's it Cause New Year's Eve was gone and everything was fine. They were past the 38 weeks. Like I wanted them to come after 38 weeks, because you know a lot of time to in 37 weeks. A little bit like they don't suck. Well, I'm depressed and I wanted to breastfeed as well.
0:29:02 - Emilee
So I said okay, but your reference point with twins is surgical twins right.
0:29:10 - Bibi
Cause.
0:29:10 - Emilee
I've seen physiologically born twins at 35, 36, 37 weeks and they suck just fine, you know, but the damage of the assembly line and surgery is profound yeah.
0:29:24 - Bibi
And I think like it has to do with a lot of things you know, like everything that is just putting, you know, the stress, the skin, like the ultrasound, like all of that you know together. So I just stayed away from everything. 38 weeks and two days, I'm like, okay, we're ready, gonna have a baby, baby's tomorrow. I said to my husband, so went to the beach, had a nice day at the beach, did some squat in the water, came home, went for a walk again, cause I know what works, and then he burned the sage. I'm like, yeah, sage is gonna do the thing. So I burned the sage, went to bed and then, around 4 am I, my water broke while I was in the bed. So I just run into the bathroom and then, like just as in the movie, splash all the water like on the ground right, and that again my midwife came up. You know I'm panicking because I'm like, oh my gosh, I broke my water. It's no, contraction Like this is gonna take forever. I'm gonna stay here three days waiting for this contraction. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, you are coming now. I was talking to the babies. So I started squatting, using some clary sage, walking like doing all the things just because I was like, no, I'm so tired, like I'm not staying here waiting for you, that's it, it's go time.
And then at 5 am I had my first contraction. I was so happy, like this. It felt like a contraction, like like it wasn't painful, but it felt different from the Braxton X. So I was like, oh yes. So I woke up my husband and said, hi, hi, hi, we're gonna have babies. So I woke him up and then after five minutes I have another contraction. And then after five minutes, and then it's about 520 and I've had about four contractions. And I said to my husband maybe go and wake up my mom, so that you know we are all here Cause my mom. There's a lot of story back, but just to make it short, my mom had twins, so I have twin sisters. However, yeah, when she was having, she had the first one. It was kind of a accident. Baby just came out. But with the second, everybody panicked in the room. They put her to sleep and they did like a long longitudinal, so vertical, incision and so she walked. This was in Italy.
0:31:51 - Emilee
So she woke up.
0:31:53 - Bibi
No babies. Not knowing where she was, they also left half of the placenta inside. So she had to go back. She had an infection. The babies were in the new queue which was like three kilometers away from where she was. So for her, wow, there was a lot of trauma there, you know, and I wanted and I needed this birth to go the way I wanted to, for me and for her. So I woke up, so I say to my husband it's 520. I've had for contraction, go and get her. So my husband go and get her and the first baby comes out. Did she get to see the first one? Nobody was there, just me. I was like what?
0:32:40 - Emilee
And then I was like what I was like, what I was like, what I was like what I was like, what I was like what, and they're like what happened. What happened? And they came in and was like does she live with you or she just was staying?
0:32:54 - Bibi
Cause the baby she came from Italy just for the baby.
0:32:58 - Emilee
She lived in Italy. Yeah, okay, yeah.
0:32:59 - Bibi
She came from Italy for the babies to be with me for three months because in my mom she's from Nigeria and in Nigeria, when your daughter, like, becomes a mom, as her mother, you have the duty to you know, be there for the, for the birth and the postpartum.
0:33:16 - Emilee
Beautiful.
0:33:17 - Bibi
So yeah, so she came for for that. So yeah, so the first baby came out cannot come out and I was like, oh my gosh, it's no picture, it's no video. Again, she was fine, just the cord was short. So I was planning to keep everything attached but unfortunately the cord was too short so we had to cut. So we cut the cord and because during the scan they told me there were two placenta, I was waiting for the placenta, but the placenta didn't come. So I said I think I need to focus for the second twin. So I gave the baby to my husband and then I said to my husband can you just like put the camera so that you know we can at least have a video of the second twin? Then I'm like just take some pictures of me in the meantime, and this is like 535.
0:34:10 - Emilee
I mean this pain free for contraction birth. It's amazing.
0:34:15 - Bibi
So this is like 535. And the contraction started to pick up again, finally, and I was like, okay, yes, some ready to do this, I'm ready, and I'm ready. And the second baby was rich. So I was waiting for a bridge baby. What happened is I had a cramp in my leg. So I down, and as I bear down, I could see my mom, that she was scared. She was very scared in that moment, you know, and it's like I was about to bird, but I couldn't. And so I look at my mom and I said, mom, you have to get out. Yeah, you have to get out. And so in that, moment she got out.
She just went out and as as she stepped out of the baby, the baby came out. Oh my God, wow. And that's the video that everybody saw I've seen. It's just a video of the baby like just coming out. You know that I'm just like putting the baby up like that Because literally the baby just flew out and that was it, and she was head down. She wasn't rich so she must have turned maybe, who knows, but she was head down. She was a sunny side posterior, didn't even notice that someone told me not long ago. I was like, oh really, well, who cares? And after that I cuddle the babies, had to cut the cord because placenta, the cord was too short. Cuddle the babies. And then I'm like, okay, we got to get these two placentas because it's too more placentas to come. And then I felt something really big and I thought it was a third baby. I'm like, oh my God, what is this? And all of a sudden One gigantic yeah Center comes out, connected, yeah, like that. And I was like, oh my God.
0:36:19 - Emilee
Yeah, they're huge, huge, beautiful, and I was like I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like. I'm like, I'm like, oh, my God, that's a big one, beautiful, I bet that felt like a third baby. I wanted to be that puppy, wade Gosh.
0:36:42 - Bibi
So one came out then and you cut the cord, and then the other came out and you cut the cord and then the placenta came out and it was too fused Essentially. But let's say maybe they fused, but we will really never know, because if you looked at like, I've seen fused placenta and that looks like one placenta. Yeah but they both kind of have their like.
0:37:04 - Emilee
Well, like I've seen. I've seen twin placentas where it's like two, like the umbilical cord insertion is there's two on one big one versus like two placentas that come together and they're like their own big old placentas and there's a fusion point. Yeah, does that make sense.
0:37:27 - Bibi
Yes, yes, I think, like, even like cause. Then, after three hours, I went into the hospital and made it a no even why.
Oh, I had them. So what happened there? Well, this is a bit of a backstory. So I was so scared because I told myself that I was not going to have like it's just a quick birth. I wanted to. I wanted to like control, like the end of the birth, because I didn't want to have like a third degree, I wanted to have like a small degree. So I was, I was going to stay at home, but the bird was so quick that I was like no, I did it again.
So my fear was that I had split more than before because of the two babies. My husband couldn't see, my mom couldn't see, I couldn't see. My belly was still really big, I couldn't bend. So I said all right, you know what, we'll go to the hospital. So I called them. I said look, I'm just going to have eggs, I'm going to have breakfast, going to breastfeed the babies, and then I'll come and see you. You check down there and then I go. Plus, it was really easy for paperwork as well. So went in, got my paperwork, they checked, it was a tiny, tiny one, you know not, it wasn't. It wasn't a third one. So I said, yeah, that's fine, you can put stitches and then I'll go. So they put maybe one or two stitches. I don't know what they did, but I was like, okay, I'm going. So then I left and came home and the baby slept for like 10 hours, and so I did.
0:39:00 - Emilee
Did they just stay home with mom or dad?
0:39:02 - Bibi
Yeah, With your mom. No, they came. Yeah, yeah, they came with me. Kids came with me. Yeah, yeah, they came with me. And then we came back home and then that was it. I breastfed, them, had a lot of milk. Each twin had the breast. They fed so well. One of the twin has a tongue tie. They didn't even notice at the hospital. I noticed because she was chewing on my, on my nipple, you know. But that that was fine. Like she's, she's attached really well. She breastfed until 13 months. Then she went herself out, which was very sad, and the other one is still breastfeeding.
0:39:46 - Emilee
So how old are they?
0:39:48 - Bibi
They are 21 months now. Okay, they're going to be two in January.
0:39:53 - Emilee
Yeah, Wow, amazing yes.
0:39:59 - Bibi
And I think the the next part of the story is that for me, this birth was like I felt like I was reborn. I was reborn as a, as a mother, as a woman, as and as a midwife. Like I truly understood what type of work I want to do in this world now as a midwife, and it's very different from what I learned because I've got two degrees in midwifery. It's very different from what I learned and from what I did, you know, and now I I know what I want to do, of course, but unfortunately, after the birth of my twins, I had a lot of negativity, a lot of people coming at me and it was not easy at all. And so that was, you know, the other side where people were like, but what if? What if that happened? What if that? What is that? It was really dangerous. What you did, you shouldn't talk about it and all of that.
And that is also why, like for one year around, for about one year, I was just like, shall I tell my story? Like, shall I let people know that actually you can do this, actually we are meant to do this. Actually, like our body can do anything if we let it do and if we trust it. You know, and it took me like a very long time, and then I went to Bali and I had my vision let's say that way in Bali and I was like, no, I need, I need to talk, I need to speak and I need people to know that you can have a beautiful birth, like you absolutely can. And for me, I cannot even imagine where I would be or what person I would be if I haven't had these births with my kids. You know, they were, oh my gosh, transformational, transformational.
0:42:01 - Emilee
And like that kind of stuff, like the, the, what if? Oh my God, it's so dangerous. Like it's beneath you Like it. Just it's nothing, it's nuts on a windshield. It's nothing because only completely indoctrinated. You know, like agents of industrial alipathy are going to troll concern, you know. Concern, troll you like that. Like it's not even interesting. I mean, that's how I feel now. It's like somebody saying, somebody saying like, but what if?
Is so ignorant and and like low consciousness and it's only speaking from their own unknowing right. That's like someone who knows birth, someone who knows themselves, doesn't give their agency over to the state Period. You know someone who knows themselves and embodied woman and embodied mother doesn't show up at a facility and surrender herself and her baby. So when, when you know the system, anyone within it, which is everyone, sees women like you, it's like. It's like it doesn't fit into the reality that they have been groomed into. Right, and of course you must speak because unfortunately, so many women and mothers have been caught up in the evil web of this. They're not, they're not idiots, they're not trolling you, they just genuinely don't know, and that's what this podcast has really done.
Right Is is like oh shit, all over the world. These women are from every. I mean. There's thousands and thousands of women now that are just, you know, trailblazing this, lighting this new path. Anyway, I mean this is I want everyone to hear this because anyone, any one of you who's going to do anything like this publicly is going to get the same little collection of bullshit. And an embodied woman, ultimately, is willing to learn how to generate our own sense of approval right, so that we can stand in our truth. And if you are a woman who still really cares what everyone else thinks, that's your work, because you're not living a life for yourself yet and when you do like, the path gets shown right, it's not complicated and there's so much you know here for us in motherhood, in pregnancy, to wake up to. Yeah, I love your story. So would you say more before we end about how this has changed your midwifery vision?
Yeah, yeah Well you know what you're talking to.
0:45:35 - Bibi
It has changed in a way that I thought to myself I look like this is like the truth. I thought to myself, okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to go back into the system and then I'm going to try and change thing in the system, right, and I did it for like four months and I'm like F this. I am out of here, yeah.
0:46:02 - Emilee
Like look, look, girlfriend, if you can't birth there, you can't work there, right?
0:46:10 - Bibi
I was just like what, what not like what is going on. You know, it was just like, yeah, no, I just couldn't. I just couldn't like, I tried and I just feel like, and you know, like what I was saying to someone today, you know, it's like, literally, it's like you saying, hey, we just going to hell and we're going to try and make the devil change their mind, and it's like, no, no, so now the work that I do, it's all from the outside. I try to do it like through social media as well, a lot and just try to educate a little bit more women because, as you said, I think, like, and even for me I just did not know, you know, and so I truly know that there is a lot of women out there that they just don't know, and not just that they just live in from a place of fear, of course, and then when there is fear, everything is clouded.
And for me, I'm like you know what, with my twins, I had such a strong intuition like I, I visioned the birth, like I knew the bird was going to be that way.
I told my mom, I told my friend, I told my sister and it went exactly that way. So I had such a level of intuition that I'm like what if women all had this level of intuition, without all the noise? That means that you could actually tell me when something is wrong, you could actually tell me when you know that everything is fine. And so I guess my work now it's kind of gotten deeper. So I am working more with women to help them to find that intuition, especially in during pregnancy, to be able to tune with the babies, because you know, birth is like an initiation initiation for you as a mother and for the baby as well, and we don't want the women to be in a trauma and the baby to be in trauma, because that then get passed for future generations. So I guess my work now it's more. There is no clinic anymore, it's not cleaning at all, it's all on another level, yeah.
0:48:32 - Emilee
How could it not be Right, like you can't have those birth experiences, get initiated into the ecstasy of birth and the possibility of birth and the reality of birth, and then go back to an inherently abusive hierarchical dynamic with women?
0:48:52 - Bibi
That just doesn't make sense. I really don't even have the energy. I've got three kids, you know.
0:48:57 - Emilee
Yeah Well, it's not in alignment with what you know to be true.
0:49:01 - Bibi
Yeah.
0:49:02 - Emilee
Yeah, amazing. Oh, so how can women find you? I'm sure they'll want to follow, yeah.
0:49:09 - Bibi
I have a lot of different social media, but for the English speaking, it's your underscore, holistic midwife, so you will see English content there. Yeah.
0:49:20 - Emilee
And that's Instagram.
0:49:22 - Bibi
Instagram, yeah, and TikTok as well. Tiktok is BB, your holistic midwife, so yes, Awesome.
0:49:28 - Emilee
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you staying up late so that I could hear your story and thank you so much for having me.
0:49:36 - Bibi
and like I knew this day was going to come, because when I was listening to the stories, I'm like I'm going to go on that podcast, I'm going to tell the story of my twins.
0:49:46 - Emilee
Yeah, all of it and the midwifery evolution is so powerful because I know a lot of medical midwives listen to this podcast and they make up that they're stuck and it's not true. It's just not true. Everything is a choice, you know, and so hopefully this will inspire.
0:50:07 - Bibi
Everything is a choice and you know, for me, like what I can say, and look, I've got, like all my friends, midwives. They don't work in the system. We all do our things. So there are lots of us out there and it's just a matter of, yeah, making a decision and just go with it and it's going to be fine. Like it will be fine. You know, like we are doing the right things, we are on the right path. We just have to keep going and trusting, trusting women.
0:50:36 - Emilee
Oh right, and it's like when you are on your deathbed, what do you want to say about what you contributed to the world? And do you want to say that you spent the majority of your life upholding industrial birth? Or do you want to say that you were one of the women that stood for women and stood for babies and stood for health and stood for embodiment? And it just doesn't have to be that complicated of a decision, really. Yeah, okay, thank you, so, so so much. It was so nice to see that. Thank you, thank you.
